British BBQ Society Forums

not at all Keith. A free choice is exactly right though an educated choice can be advantageous if one has been privileged enough to partake in some of the more noble beverages..

Couldn't agree more, however my palate has never had the opportunity to receive a proper education. There are three types of everything, food, wine, beer etc. Those I like, those I don't and those I haven't tried. My normal (boring?) choice would be a red over a white with Merlot being , as I've been told, an available cop-out.

I am with gazz on this one.
Reds. Nice Banrock, Jacobs Creek, Hardys Crest Cabernet Shiraz, Wolf Bass. When flush a nice Malbec.

Founder member of Alcoholics Unanimous

derekmiller wrote:
Founder member of Alcoholics Unanimous

Can I join please??!!!

keith157 wrote:Couldn't agree more, however my palate has never had the opportunity to receive a proper education. There are three types of everything, food, wine, beer etc. Those I like, those I don't and those I haven't tried. My normal (boring?) choice would be a red over a white with Merlot being , as I've been told, an available cop-out.

Wine, like everything, is a matter of taste. But that's on its own - matched with food it becomesa little more factual (though there are no absolutes).

Whether you like corn flakes or marmite for breakfast is up to you. Putting marmite and sugar on corn flakes...well, someone might like it, but it becomes far less about personal taste.

Some food-wine matches will be 'wrong' in that either you won't be able to taste the food because of the wine, or the wine will be overpowered by the food. This is the sort of 'wrong' you can sometimes put up with.

But sometimes there's a taste clash which is simply wrong, and will probably be so for almost everyone. Fortunately (and I hope this is where we might get some great ideas on this thread) there are some combinations which are bloody fantastic.

Food cooked on barbecues aren't just one taste, but it's true that there are quite a few similarities. Your choice of merlot is excellent for most red meat dishes, and a good quality chilean merlot is a joy to behold.

With 'traditional' barbecue dishes (dare I say 'competition barbecue' dishes), most barbecue sauces are an absolute swine (pardon the pun), because the sweetness you get in most of them strips the fruit out of most dry whites and most reds. Meanwhile, most of us don't like medium-dry or sweet whites unless its with a desert or some cheese.

Best bet is a powerful pinot noir, a zinfandel, or a beaujolais-villages, though you won't taste too much of the wine.

Anything smoked adds to the difficulties. Any red clashes quite horribly with most smoked meats, and there aren't a lot of whites that go well, either. Best bet is a oaked chardonnay, particularly with chicken.

So anything that's (a) pork, (b) sweet barbecue sauce, and (c) smoke is a nightmare. Beaujolais-villages is the only real option, and even then you're just getting something that avoids clahes, ratger than a food-wine pairing that enhances the flavour of both. Your best bet is to either compromise your wine choice and enjoy the food, or compromise the flavourings in the food if you want to enjoy the wine.

Going back to your merlot - if you enjoy traditional barbecued food, and you want to really enjoy that and aren't too bothered about the wine tasting brIlliant, then a £5 bottle of supermarket Chilean Merlot may well be your best option.

Steve W

Well Steve looks like you've set yourself a long term job, trying to match all the varying tastes with wines, not forgetting Carolina vinegar based sauces etc. It's a tough job but some wine lover's got to do it
To be honest my first experience with red wine was "Bulls Blood" which was all the rage (I'm told) in the early 70's and my tastes haven't evolved wine wise much more than that. Joking aside I've tried wine tasing courses but although people will differ with me I firmly believe that it takes years to educate a palate to appreciate the subtleties of mixing good wine with good food. Given your choice of wine or food I'll opt for the good food and accept a tolerable red wine or back to my all time favourite a good British ale. Okay I'm drinking Jeremiah Weed sourmash and bourbon tops these days but you get the drift I hope.

London Irish wrote:

derekmiller wrote:
Founder member of Alcoholics Unanimous

Can I join please??!!!

But us a drink and consider it done.

My father & I both attended (different) classes from these guys n girls a decade or so ago: http://www.wsetglobal.com/qualifications/default.asp

I was fed up going into a wine shop / aisle & not knowing one wine from another - compounded by the ridiculous French AOC system which, then, wouldn't allow producers / most regions to put the grape variety on the bottles label.

If you like a little wine, then I wholly recommend doing one of these evening courses - it gives you a great introduction to the production of different alcoholic drinks (not just wine) as well as the opportunity to sample a good selection of key regions & varieties so you have a base to compare others you may try. They have changed their course structure since I completed it - their current equivilent is the Stage 3 I think - which was done over a 12-week (?) term with 1 lesson a week for 2 or 3 hours I think.

Warning: you will drink an awful lot more wine after doing one of these courses.... as my waist line has shown

Where I agree with Pecker is that if you are liberally coating the meat you are cooking with sweeter or vinegary BBQ sauce / injections etc, then it is very difficult to pair any drink, not just wine. These dishes have huge strong flavours which most drinks are going to be dwarfed by - even more so if there is chilli heat in it. Even a great cold beer / lager is not going to add to the flavour. Enjoyment yes, but flavour, not so much. Something I haven't tried yet is some of the medium whites which go very very well with more highly flavoured Indian & Chinese dishes e.g. Riesling & Gewürztraminer. These might have enough sweetness to cut through some of the sauces.

As long as the meat flavour is the dominant flavour then 'old school' pairings of wine & food work well. If the dominant flavour is the sauce / injection / rub / smoke, then it is harder etc. Smoked fish & meats go very well with cold crisp Sauvignon Blancs or Chenin Blancs. Big strong reds - Tannats or Malbec as well as Rhone reds & New World Shiraz have plenty enough fruit to cope with meats cooked on the BBQ without the sauces e.g. ribs of beefs, steaks, burgers.

We have a great local independent wine shop where I have spent far too much money - the guy who runs the shop is very knowledgeable & doesn't always try & sell you the most expensive bottle! But for everyday drinking, these guys offer some great value & quality wines: www.nakedwines.com

Cheers,

Simon
(founder of 'Just another glass.....or two')

keith157 wrote:To be honest my first experience with red wine was "Bulls Blood" which was all the rage (I'm told) in the early 70's...

Snap!

keith157 wrote:Well Steve looks like you've set yourself a long term job, trying to match all the varying tastes with wines, not forgetting Carolina vinegar based sauces etc. It's a tough job but some wine lover's got to do it

Fortunately I stand on the shoulders of giants with this one. Food-wine matching is a much written about subject, and I have several books; there are plenty of sites online, too.

The trick is to find a source (or sources) that you've tried and found to work. I am a big fan of McWhirter & Metcalfe's Pocket Food and Wine Guide, which I use as a starting point for pretty much everything.

Steve W

Now maybe a good time for you to conduct some indepth research into matching wines with BBQ I doubt there are many, certainly not this side of the "pond". I'm not saying I would be swayed away from the hops but it would give me a choice to offer my guests (when they have'nt got a wine box on intraveneous drip ).

You mentioned standing on the shoulders of giants, that's about the only way I'd be able to keep my head above water on this (and probably many other) topic